From $4.5M for 49% to $700M In The Bank at IPO: Sanjeev & Yashish On 17 Years Of Policybazaar

From idea to IPO and beyond. 

What does it take to back a company for nearly two decades?
There are no written rules to navigate one of the most important relationships in a startup. One between a founder and an investor.

This episode is an inside look at how one of India’s longest founder-investor relationships was built and tested, between Yashish Dahiya (Policybazaar) and Sanjeev Bikhchandani (Info Edge).

In 2008, a ₹20 crore cheque was signed for 49 percent of the company, based solely on a powerpoint idea.
What followed were regulatory challenges, shifting business models, new investors on-board, and moments of disagreement. But through 17 years, six funding rounds, and an IPO, they stayed aligned.
These are two entrepreneurs who built their first ventures a decade apart; Sanjeev in 1997, Yashish in 2008 and have seen the Indian startup ecosystem evolve from the ground up.

If you are building or funding startups this conversation will resonate with you for its honesty and give takeaways for your own journey.

0:00 – Infoedge Ventures X Policybazaar
1:08 – Sanjeev’s first memories of Yashish before Policybazaar
5:33 – Pitching of the Policybazaar idea 
11:08 – How Info Edge almost didn’t invest in Policybazaar
15:56 – What shaped Yashish as Founder & Sanjeev as Investor
25:14 – How the founder–investor bond evolved 
27:08 – The Boardroom Dynamics at Policybazaar
31:08 – Moments of Disagreement: ₹840 Cr raised, ₹700 Cr still in the bank
34:38 – What makes an investor-founder relationship work?
46:02 – What We’ve Learned after 17 years of building together
49:03 – How India can build Long-term founder-investor bonds
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Connect with Siddhartha on:
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This video is for informational purposes only. The views expressed are those of the individuals quoted and do not constitute professional advice.

Transcript

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 1:10

Hi, this is Siddhartha Ahluwalia, your host at Neon Show and also Managing Partner at Neon Fund, a fund that invests in earlier stages in the best of enterprise AI companies building from India for the globe.

Today, I am most excited among the 400 episodes that we have recorded in the last 7 years. Because today is a case study on how a founder and investor relationship has evolved over 17 years and been an example for the ecosystem. So, I have today Sanjeev Bikhchandani Sir with me, Founder of Naukri Info Edge and Yashish Dahiya with me, Founder of PolicyBazaar.

Welcome Yashish. Welcome Sanjeev on the podcast. Thank you.

So, Sanjeev, I want to tell you one fact that in the last conversation with Yashish, I discovered that we both went to the same school. St. Mary's, Meerut. And also Sarbvir is also from that school.

So, maybe there is something.

Yashish Dahiya 2:08 

I went to many schools, but yeah, that was one of them. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 2:10

Yeah, he went to St. Columbus also. 

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 2:13

And there you met Hitesh.

Yashish Dahiya 2:14

St. Columbus is there, Sanjeev is also from St. Columbus. But obviously, much senior, yeah.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 2:18 

Since now we are talking about the 17 years of this partnership. Let's start with you Sanjeev. What are the stories that you remember from these 17 years?

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 2:31 

I remember how we almost didn't invest.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 2:36

Did you know that?

Yashish Dahiya 2:37

Yeah, yeah, very well. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 2:38

We had very candid conversations and you know. So, Yashish was somebody, Ek toh Hitesh Oberoi had been in school with him in class 11 for a couple of months before I think Hitesh shifted schools.

Yashish had just joined that school St. Columbus is in Delhi. And then they met up again in IIT. They were in the same hostel.

Now in the same hostel you get to know a guy pretty well. So, Hitesh knew him rather well. I myself had been to take a few classes as a visiting faculty in IIM Ahmedabad when he was studying there.

Yashish's class was 96, around 94, 95 I think I had been there. And in the marketing course, I remember I had taken a couple of cases for Yashish's class. And I had remembered him from there.

Because Yashish is a slightly different name. It's not Ashish. It's not Yatish.

It is Yashish. And so, in IIM Ahmedabad, there are name tags in the classroom before your seat. So, you get to know everybody's name when you are teaching.

So, I remembered him. Okay. And then I met him at Hitesh's wedding which was in 2000.

Yashish Dahiya 4:03

Yeah.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 4:05 

And subsequently I met again when he wanted to do Policy Bazaar.

Yashish Dahiya 4:10 

We met in the middle at a few Infowise events also. Yashish has come as a friend guest of Hitesh sometimes.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 4:16 

So, I had a passing acquaintanceship. More than hi-bye. You know, I have a conversation when you meet up socially.

And then he turned up saying, I want to start a startup. So, he met Hitesh. Then he met me.

And I was looking after the investing piece. At that time, it was a very small investment. We didn't have a fund.

It was a very small investing piece. You know, we had just done one company, two companies. Maybe, you know, done about 10-15 crores of investing.

Maybe 20 crores. I don't recall. And Yashish turned up.

And he said, I want to do a portal for comparison but comparison shopping of insurance. I said, what is that? Nothing like this in India.

I said, what is that? He said, people, you know, people buy insurance without any knowledge. Or without too much knowledge.

Most people. People buy insurance because legally they're supposed to. You can't own and drive a car in this country without and be uninsured.

That's a crime. Am I right? Right?

You've got to have at least basic minimum third-party insurance. Otherwise, if you have an accident and you're found uninsured, you go to jail. So, people buy car insurance because they have to.

People in the past have bought life insurance because it was a tax-saving instrument for your salary. Nobody really understands or comprehends and nobody figures what's a better insurance policy for me. Initially, all insurance companies were public sector companies.

So, and they had carved out life insurance to be sold by LIC. Right? Automobile insurance will be sold by New India Insurance.

Yeah. So, there was no competition. Okay, so you didn't think much before you bought insurance.

You bought insurance because you had to. You bought insurance because the person selling it to you was somebody you trusted. Not because, you know, he explained the features and you knew, you know.

So, one had not really looked at the insurance market and one did not understand it very well. And one did not understand there was an opportunity there. So, I said, he said, I will do comparison shopping insurance.

I said, what is that? He said, no, you see, now there are lots of private sector insurance companies. I said, yes.

So, he says, therefore, you have a choice of who to buy which insurance from, you know, a choice who to buy from. And how do you know you are buying the right policy at the right price from the right company? I said, I don't know, is that a problem that you have to select?

He says, yeah, yeah, there are many differences. So, I said, such as? He says, for instance, I am willing to bet you are paying 60% more for your car insurance than you need to.

Now, he didn't know what car I was driving. He didn't know what insurance I was paying. He didn't know who the insurer was.

He just, lagado tukka. Okay. Shakal dekhke, they are all sort of extra.

So, I said, don't be daft. You must be crazy. I said, I have got a standard car, brand name car.

I bought it from a reputed dealer. It's a reputed car company. I was buying a Honda.

Okay. It's a reputed car company. And it's a public sector insurance company.

And I bought the insurance from the car dealer. There is no question of me overpaying. The entire value chain is trusted.

See, the trust matters a lot. Okay. Entire value chain is trusted.

I trust the brand. I trust the dealer. I trust the insurance company.

Obviously, there is no way I am paying 60% more. He said, show me your insurance. I carry my insurance policy in my backpack.

You know, if there is an accident, you can produce the papers. And the cop catches you. So, I took out the papers.

I said, look at this. So, he said, okay. And he sat on his laptop and accessed some 3, 4, 5 different websites.

Obviously, insurance company websites. And put in my car details. And he asked me, how much mileage did you do?

I gave that to him. I asked the driver. I gave that to him.

And he said, have you ever claimed insurance? I said, no. So, driver-driven, owner-driven, driver-driven.

He took all the details across the table. And in about half an hour, he came back with some 6 or 8 alternate quotes from different companies. And sure enough, the lowest quote was 40%, less than what I was paying.

And I was gobsmacked. I said, really? I didn't know this.

How come this company is undercutting so much? He said, no, it's not undercutting. He said, different insurance companies will price the same risk differently.

Because their risk assessment models are different. And it's not as if their strategy is to underprice. They believe this is a lower risk.

And therefore, they'll charge lower premium. Okay? I said, look, if there's this much variation and this much opacity, you know, and the whole market is running on trust.

I trusted the whole chain. I bought something. I discovered I could have bought something cheaper.

Maybe I would not have bought a cheaper one. Maybe I'd continue to buy this one because I trusted them more. Maybe.

Maybe they would have told me, boss, you know, we settle claims. They mess up later. Don't go.

Don't try and save 10,000 rupees, 5,000 rupees a year. It doesn't matter. Maybe I'd still buy it.

He said, no. Buy consciously. And I said, this is their across, automobile, health, life.

There are different companies, price. Now, this is a, there are 3-4 insights here. One is a customer insight, which, you know, most people do not think about the buy insurance.

People do not buy insurance with knowledge or with research. They trust the person selling it to them. They buy it because it's legally required.

It's not a conscious choice. But, that is customer insight. And then, there's a market insight that different insurance companies will price the same risk very differently.

So, price variation is very high. So, customer insight plus market insight, nobody else doing it. Intuitively, you know the Indian market and Indian consumer.

We knew it. So, people will want this. And if they're the first guys doing it and the only guys doing it, this can really work.

It's a matter of 2008. Nobody else was doing it. And we did a quasi kind of handshake immediately.

And then we began any diligence and you know, rough checks and things. the first thing was there was no PowerPoint. There was an idea.

So, first they made a PowerPoint, sent it, we circulated it to the board. It looks okay, this, that, whatever. This, okay, fine.

You know, let's dig some more. Now, I asked, we asked Hitesh. Now, we were sitting, Hitesh, Ambarish and I, Ambarish is the CFO.

We were sitting in Ambarish's car in the parking lot of the Radisson Hotel in Mahipalpur and we were debating for 10-20 minutes what to do, what not to do, what not to do. So, I asked then Hitesh two questions.

I said, Hitesh, is this guy honest? He said yes. Is this guy hardworking? Yes, hardworking. He won't give up, right? Yes He won't give up. So, he had known him from the hostel. In the hostel, you know a guy.

Okay. And he told me some crazy stories about him also, which I will come to later. So, I said, okay.

So, I said, let's do it. Hitesh, you okay? I am okay.

Ambarish, Ambarish is a finance guy. Right. Conservative.

But, after some humming and hawing, he said, okay, let's do it. Now, up till now, we have not discussed how much money he wants. You know, we said, we don't want to invest.

We don't want to invest. So, Hitesh hung up Yashish from the car. Yashish, before listening, what Hitesh was saying, said, look, tell me.

If you don't want to do it, if you don't want to do it, I will go back to London and I will go back to your job. So, you know, I have got the whole team waiting. I haven't paid my salary since three months.

You know, you have to tell us now. So, yes or no? So, Hitesh said, I have called to say yes.

I mean, you know, he said, oh, okay, very good, very good. So, we said yes. Then, we got into a, I said, how much money do you want to raise?

He said, I want 20 crores. Now, 20 crores in 2008 was a lot of money. It was roughly, maybe… 

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 13:31

3, 3.5 million dollars?

Yashish Dahiya 13:33

That time, it was 4. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 13:34

But, you know, for us, it's not that. It was, what?

It was a, big, it was about, 8, 9 percent of our treasury. Entire treasury. We didn't have a fund, right?

We just had a balance sheet. He said, we have to put 10 percent of our treasury in one company. You know, is it too much?

It was too much. So, I asked him, what will you, what share will you get for 20 crores? He said, I'll give you 49 percent.

Now, both things zapped me. Because, nobody used 49 percent and nobody asked, nobody asked for 20 crores upfront in those days. And, 49 percent, nobody was giving 49 percent, even now.

So, I said, man, he's giving 49 percent. But, he's asking 20 crores. So, then, I said, boss, why don't you raise less?

No. I need 20 crores. I need it. He said, why do you need it?

I need it. So, so, so, then we sat again, Hitesh, Ambarish, and I, and then we said, let's do it. So, we invested 20 crores for 49 percent of the company.

And, that's how the investment happened.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 14:45 

Quite, quite a significant amount for a company which went public recently.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 14:50 

Haan, it was a, it was a large check for us in 2008. Aaj kal toh hum kar dete hain, but, in 2008, it was a large check for us. Woh bhi, on a power point.

Or, even pre-power point.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 15:04 

Back then, the company's revenue was itself 154 crores or 200 crores roughly, I remember.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 15:09 

Yaar bolke, yaad nahi hai. We were 84 crores in 2000 and, March 2006, we were 147 crores in March 2006. We would have been about 2.5-300 crores. Yeah. I don't, I don't recall exactly. 

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 15:22

Very, very significant part of your own.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 15:25

Haan, no, no, but we were looking at the, you know, how much, how much. 

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 15:27

Ownership. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 15:28

How much, not ownership, how much, cash do you have in the bank and what percentage of that is.

We were confident every year Infoedge would make a profit so we will get this cash back from infoedge profits. There won't be a big hole in the balance sheet for very long.

But, you know, we just felt it's a big exposure for us, that's all.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 15:47 

And, and what are the crazy stories that Hitesh told you about Yashish from the hostel days?

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 15:52 

Yaar, he said, you know, we used to go for movies to Chanakya cinema and from the hostel, the IIT Delhi hostel back door gate which is near Africa Avenue. So, we used to all go by bus. Yashish used to say, I'll run and go.

And, you guys catch the bus and you run from IIT Chanakya, I think 5-6 kilometers, I don't know how many kilometers, and you reach before the bus. By the time the bus came, we got on, bus reached, bus stopped, we reached Chanakya, Yashish was already there. And, he used to do this every time.

So, I, when, you know, Yashish lives in Noida, we have a family home, office is in Gurgaon. So, he said, sometimes I, now this is after we invested, you know, when the office was set up in Gurgaon, he said, sometimes I run in the morning from Noida to Gurgaon. So, he does this triathlon thing, he does, you know, bhakta hai, swimming karta hai, what is the third thing in triathlon?

Yashish Dahiya 16:53

Cycling. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 16:54

Cycling karta hai. You know, I find it very impressive, you know, I don't do any of those things.

I could once in a while, but not any longer. And, so, you know, he is a fitness guy.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 17:10

Yashish, you have always been this wild, and do you still do Noida to Gurgaon morning runs to the office?

Yashish Dahiya 17:17 

You know, as you get older, you do introspection, because I have started doing a lot more of that these days than I used to back then. So, that time I did not know the reason why I was doing this. I actually wasn't doing it because I wanted to be fitter.

I actually have an aversion to public transport. I don't want to be in, like, I don't see the fun of it, right? I don't see the fun of waiting for a bus, catching a bus.

So, for example, I used to run from IIT Delhi to my home. But what was my alternative? My alternative was walking from my hostel to the gate, taking a bus, which would take me to central secretariat, for those who know Delhi, that's centre of Delhi, from south of Delhi I've gone to centre of Delhi, from there I would change the bus, and then I would take the bus to Noida, and then get off, go home.

It was all jam-packed, almost all the time, and waiting. So, I love independence. This is from introspection, I love being independent.

I don't like to be dependent on situations, I don't want to be dependent on the bus and its timings. And please understand, it used to take me the bus, if you do this entire route, hostel to home, will take you two hours, and it's a 19 and a half kilometre distance. Now, for someone like me, one hour 20 minutes, one hour 25 minutes, that time one hour 15 minutes, it's not that big a deal. The point is it's much easier, if I was on a cycle it would be 35-40 minutes.

So, it's a very logical thought through, in a very serious way, it was not illogical at all. But yes, when most people look at it, they think it's illogical because they haven't understood my aversion to control. I have a huge aversion to control and being out of... I love doing things kind of at my own.

And I think that is basically what I have figured over time.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 19:18 

And what are your stories of this partnership with Sanjeev and InfoEdge over the last 17 years?

Yashish Dahiya 19:26

Sanjeev is very, on one side, very straightforward in the sense, he's always told us focus on cash flow, focus on this. That part is very consistent and every time we would meet him, if it's been a good quarter, he would beat us down and send us back. So, if we went in jumping and we cracked it, he would send us back, you know, humbled.

And if we went in being very hassled, that we had some major issues, he would send us back more enthusiastic than before. So, he's been very, very consistent over the last 17 years. But I think when I look back in hindsight, there were a lot of things that he said, which in hindsight were always right.

And I'll give you many examples. So, when we were starting, and I don't know if Sanjeev remembers this fully, but he said, look, everything else is okay, but have you really thought about regulation in this sector? And at that time, as Sanjeev says, you know, I sometimes act first think later.

At that time, I had not. And I said, okay, regulation is regulation. But that was a very big matter as we went through the last 17 years.

That was one of the biggest matters. I remember in 2011, I wrote to the regulator that we would like to be regulated. And I remember Sanjeev's feedback on my letter was very sharp and critical of my letter.

And I thought I had done the right thing, but in fact, I shooting that letter off. Right? I think he said that think about ESOP.

It's going to be the most important thing. Yes, Policybazaar employees have done very well. Very, very well.

They could have done better. And I could have more ESOP available for Policybazaar employees. To an extent, we also got lucky.

It's not all just effort, right? To an extent, we got lucky also. But yeah, I could have got it wrong.

I hadn't thought about it. It is the most important thing to have for management. But I remember him saying these things very, very early on.

Very, very early on, right? I think as we were raising capital, he always advised raise less. I think the jury is still out on whether that was the right thing or the wrong thing.

Maybe one day I will discover it was the wrong thing. So far, I feel we did the right thing. So far, I don't think we raised a lot.

But again, knowing how this relationship has transpired, maybe one day I will come back and say, hey, you know what? This could have been different. So I think, and I believe if today I was to mentor somebody who was eight, ten years younger, maybe I would have had a similar or maybe he was just way beyond.

So I think lots and lots of stories. But I think no relationship last 17 years without a lot of mutual, we had one very interesting one.

I guess understanding evolved over time and it still evolves.

So I guess, but that's who I am, right? I try to do the right thing long-term and yeah, I can be there for a very, very long time in anything, in any kind of situation. So very strategic, I'm very comfortable with my life.

I'm usually not very uncomfortable with the state I'm in. So same house that I lived in 20 years ago, I'm very, very comfortable, I don't change that. So I think that's how, I think these relationships develop.

I think InfoEdge is very similar in that respect.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 24:36 

And do you also have some fun stories like he has about you?

Yashish Dahiya 24:42

Lots and lots. So we have, but you know, I am more the funny guy. So I'm the one who's creating the fun all the time. Stories about me are more. I think Sanjeev is the more, everybody else compared to me is usually more mature. But we have a lot of laughs. So, you know, that's all I can say.

Nothing that comes to me immediately on what the laughs were about. But I have, I've had a special history of creating fun for everybody around.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 25:12 

And Sanjeev, this is for you. How have you seen Yashish evolve over the last 17 years? Because you would have seen change in him, right, over a period of time and some things would have remained the same.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 25:22

No, I see Yashish also has been pretty much consistent in my view. Perhaps we have begun to understand him better over the years.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 25:32 

I think what's the common is, you both appreciate the consistency the relationship has.

Yashish Dahiya 25:38 

Absolutely. I think Sanjeev is obviously a very mature person who can think through the implication of everything much longer term. And so with me, you don't need to second guess me.

I think that's the one thing I can say. You don't need to second guess me because even I can't second guess myself. Whatever is there in the mind will come in front of you straight away.

That's the advantage. The disadvantage is you will hear a lot of the mind speaking and you'll hear it speak always. So you'll hear it speak and yes, you could get very rattled by that.

But the mind, it's not that I'm pretending to be somebody, it's just that's who I am. So I will speak my mind. But usually I will not act just on my mind.

I will regurgitate, I will regurgitate, I will regurgitate. Actions are rare. Speaking is a lot.

And maybe it's my way of learning. By speaking, I get a lot of feedback. And that helps me in my regurgitation also.

So it's just that's the reality of, and that's how it's been. I think every three, four years, I would say something which would be, which I would myself repent later that why did I say that and then come back and regurgitate it and kind of figure it out.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 26:54 

So as you have come to know Sanjeev better over the years, so he, do you think he could take care of the board and let the board filter out what Yashish really said and what would translate into.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 27:07 

So actually I'm not on the board of Policybazaar. 

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 27:09 

Yeah. Info Edge is.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 27:10 

No, Kitty is. And Kitty I think is a huge asset both to Info Edge and to policy on that board. She has done a lot.

She is actually, she understands the Policybazaar business better than anybody else at Info Edge.

Yashish Dahiya 27:24 

And I think when she came on our board, I was amazed. I was amazed by her maturity, by her ability to add value, by her ability to cut out the noise because what am I saying? In my case, you have to cut out all the noise, right?

And so she was just able to cut out the noise and talk it through and understand our business very deeply. And I think that's a huge asset to both organizations. I think that's to an extent.

So I'll give an example, right? And why I say this, I'm not saying this because Sanjeev is here. It's a huge compliment to Sanjeev because so if you think about Policybazaar, I don't watch cricket.

But our biggest advertising is in cricket. And that's what a leader should be, right? It's not doing just what I want to do.

It's what the team does and that's the asset, right? That there's lots of people in the team and they do different things, right? Kitty, at least, Kitty gets it 110%.

She gets it fully. She understands our business very deeply. In my thinking, she many times can correct me in, you know, that, okay, this part you may have been missing.

So I think that is very sophisticated. And I think the reason I say kudos to Sanjeev because he can let that prevail otherwise many people would not let that prevail, right? So many people would say only what I understand I would do.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 28:53

So, well, actually, you see, I often don't understand stuff. But when I don't, I go and ask Kitty, yes or no, what does this mean? So, decision to hold, decision to sell, decision to invest more, a lot of that thinking has been led by Kitty.

So I would not overrule Kitty on anything Policybazaar without discussing it. I can't recall the last time I overruled anything. 

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 29:25

Essentially, you have built a very powerful team.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 29:27

Yeah, it's about team there. I mean, you, basically, you can't do it on your own. You've got to have a team.

I think one thing that impresses us about Policy Bazaar and Kitty and I discuss often is that whenever you go for a Policy Bazaar board meeting, it's not as if Yashish and Alok are in the room alone from Policy Bazaar. There are eight, ten other people. You've met all the next level leaders and the next next level leaders, and they have presented, they've discussed, and you've questioned them.

You walk and and the retention rate, people don't leave. So, very few people leave policybazaar. So, high retention rate, decent quality people, thus the founders are not insecure, they expose the next level of management.

Very often you see that in the companies you are invested in, you only know one or two people, the investors. The others are shielded from investors. That is truly, truly different in Policybazaar.

We get to meet everybody, we get to ask everybody a question. When Yashish doesn't present, other people present to the board, you can quiz them. So, you walk away with a lot of confidence that, you know, there's something solid here.

It's not about two guys making a PowerPoint presentation, this is real business. The other thing that, you know, Yashish spoke about that we disagreed on how much money they should raise frequently, the duty is out. The fundamental issue was what?

Policy Bazaar never actually needed the money they were raising. 

Yashish Dahiya 31:14 

That's true. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 31:15

So, they raised X in the life, they used up 20% of it.

What is the amount of money you raised?

Yashish Dahiya 31:21

We raised 840 and on the day of the IPO, we had 700 plus in the bank. So, that's absolutely right.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 31:26

So, you raised 840 million. 

Yashish Dahiya 31:27

Yes, 840. We used 140 out of it. Including ICO expenses. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 31:32

They didn't use 700 million. So, my whole thing always used to be, why are you raising money when you don't need it?

Because you are over diluting. And his answer always was, everybody is coming to me to invest. If I say no, they will go and invest in competition.

So, that was also a strategic. He said, if they come to my cap table, they won't fund my competition. So, it is strategic for me to start my competition of capital.

And if I have that much more capital, in any case, another investor doesn't come here, will think twice before investing in a company, knowing he is against this size of balance sheet. Could be right. I accept that.

But there were two points of view, for this reason. I mean, for example, if a big ticket investor had gone into competition, when these guys had only 300 million, and somebody put 200 million there, there could be a fight on their hands. 

Yashish Dahiya 32:32

I would say that even the tiger round, beyond that, because all that money was never used.

But it was in a way, I don't know, a lot of people would say, hey, you had a very solid business, you really didn't need to worry. Maybe I was paranoid. And I still am.

I like to be paranoid. Because you have to appreciate, another view. See, even for someone like InfoEdge, and you mentioned some numbers here, but even for someone like InfoEdge, this is perhaps 5%, 10%, 15% of what they have in the world.

For me, it was 100%. Today, it is perhaps 85%. In another five years, another three years, it might be 70% of everything I have.

It's a very, very large thing. I can't afford for this to ever fail. So I have to be the most risk-averse person out there.

And I've always believed 100% of zero is still zero. Of course, people like Sanjeev will always, you know, are exceptions. But I would rather optimize the success of the organization than my shareholding in the organization.

Because I think any percentage that I have is enough, right? I will never be able to spend this money in my lifetime. The important part is the success of the organization.

And I can't think only from my perspective. The important part is that the organization wins. Because remember, it's not just the money I make.

It is also the employees that are there. They deserve success for the hard work they are putting in. It's, I will look like a fool if our organization lost.

Eventually, there's a legacy. That's what people call legacy, if you would, right? I just put it in very blunt terms.

You know, lack of legacy is basically your organization failing, but you surviving, right? So, I obviously, this is the only thing that I have ever done worth speaking about, right? So, it's very, very critical to me not to fail.

And so, if I have to take a 15% dilution, so be it. And of course, we've had our debates on that. And of course, the money was not required, required.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 34:36

Sanjeev, how do you define now you have been part of so many journeys with founders, Policybazaar, Zomato. Define the working relationship between a founder and an investor, both in light terms and serious terms.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 34:50

Yaar. The way we operate is that we don't, we have a spreadsheet of course, we always look at spreadsheets in MISs, but we don't rule by MIS.

We prefer to have business discussions and yeah, we look at the MIS also. And the MIS guides us as to what discussion to have. But because we ourselves have operating experience, perhaps the nature of discussion is slightly different and that's what all our founders tell us that look, financial investors add value and they are essential and that's great. InfoEdge adds value and the nature of value added can be slightly different in each case.

And I think we're happy to be part of that mix. We don't have networks in Silicon Valley, for example. We're not even trying to get them.

It's not our strength. It probably will not become our strength also because we're not trying. We are a relatively smaller fund.

100 million, 100 million, 100 million, 150 million. And therefore, we like to go in early as first check. We like to do some operating stuff.

So, We're very happy to sit and discuss with our investing company, what sales incentive scheme does the company need. This is what will work. This is not what will not work.

How does the call center work? Come and talk to our guys, how we run a call, because we run a call center ourselves. You want to talk to a technical architect, talk to them. You want to talk to an analytics team, talk to them.

You want to talk to an AI team, talk to them. So, we can give guidance from our operating teams to startups if they want it. You got money in the bank because you want to see how to run your treasury and what to invest in.

Talk to our treasury guys. How do we do it? So, we can give guidance in terms of operations, which perhaps others may or may not be able to give with as much authenticity.

Typically, a person who's running something, an investment, they may be talking to the founders twice a week and not giving direction. See, one thing we understand is, nobody ever becomes an entrepreneur because he or she is looking for a new boss. So, if as an investor you go in and say, mera paisa hai, meri company hai, that simply won't work.

It's the founder who's there 24x7 doing the blocking and tackling. You are going in there once a month and you're talking to on the phone twice a week. Maybe you're going in there twice a month, max.

Very often they meet in your office, not in the investing company's office. So, you're not even there, they're coming to you. So, you've got to have faith and confidence and you've got to be patient.

Now, if you're selecting the right entrepreneurs to back, hopefully this will be the right way to work. But if your selection was bad in the first place, then even if you're parked there 24x7, you can't make a difference. So, you see, the secret of early stage investing is actually to invest behind founders and teams and companies that are going to succeed anyway.

Maybe make 2% difference. But you've got to be humble enough to recognize that. So, you know, any investor who says, meri company hai, maine kaamiyab kiya hai, that's humorous.

It doesn't work that way. So, actually, if you're telling me Policybazaar succeed because of us, that's not true. They were going to succeed anyway. We are fortunate we went in. Likewise for Zomato. Likewise for all other companies that are working, not working, whatever.

So, you're essentially trying to back good entrepreneurs and you're hoping they succeed and you're nudging them here, nudging them there. So, you help where you can help, where you're requested to help. You can't give instructions or directives.

You can make decisions. And if somebody is thinking about the business 24x7, which is what the founder is doing, so that's his job, and you're thinking about that business only half an hour a day, you know, he or she, the founder, is probably in a better position to take the final call. So, at the end of the day, you know, I may say to Yashish, don't raise this money.

You're raising too much. But there is no way we're going to exercise a veto on the board, even though we have the right to do it, as per the agreement, because, you know, ultimately, you have to let it be the founder's call. So, see, unless there's something that's blatantly wrong or illegal, you never ever exercise a veto, because it is the founder's call.

You can suggest, you can have conversations, you can fight for 15 days, but eventually let it go. That's the way it works. You are backing the founder.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 40:33

And Yashish, you mentioned offline that your friends shared various feedback when you went out to raise the 20 CR first round, without naming them. Can you share what were those feedback, because they're very interesting, even for first time founders to listen to.

Yashish Dahiya 40:50 

Actually, I had spoken with three people, or had some conversation with three people. I believe InfoEdge invested with me because they felt I was an honest, hardworking person who does not give up, who could sometimes speak out of turn and all that stuff. But fundamentally, that was that.

I think one person did not invest with me because he thought I was too innocent in my thinking and someone like me would not be able to build a business. Another person perhaps did not invest with me because maybe my grades were lower than their grades. And I thought they were judging me all along.

But after 13-14 years, I was sitting down with another investor and relating this story to them. And they said, have you ever thought they were judging themselves? And so we as, I think investors, many investors, specifically entrepreneur investors are essentially looking for people like themselves and they're looking for their own qualities in those people in some way.

So I think, and I may be wrong here, but I think Hitesh is that person who works very hard, does not give up. He is that person. So when he saw a glimmer of that quality in me, he identified with it straight away.

Now the other person believed their differentiation is being smarter than anybody else in the room and they probably did not see that in me. And they actually felt innocence was a weakness. The same Hitesh may have seen the innocence as a strength.

So nobody's judging me, they're judging themselves. Somebody may believe that, you know, because they had a very good grade point, that grade points were very important. And yes, they are.

And I didn't have a bad grade point, but the point is that may or may not be. So I think many a times we are looking for reflections of ourselves. And it was when this, you know, much younger person said this to me that it suddenly hit me that, oh my God, this is actually true.

We essentially look for that hint of ourselves in somebody. And when we see that, we say, oh, that's good. Or when we don't find it, we say, oh, this person doesn't have it, right? And yeah, that's really how it is.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 43:27

And what do you think Sanjeev saw in you that reflected of him?

Yashish Dahiya 43:30 

I think that is very clear. I think they were able to see the positive side of me very clearly. And the positive side, I don't think any person in my history has had a different view of my positive side.

They have always believed I am that person who doesn't give up, who keeps going, who, you know, yeah, who's usually very innocent, very straightforward. There isn't too much, you know, complexity in their mind, speaks their mind, et cetera. But see, what Sanjeev mentioned there, I think their big strength was, see, when we started PolicyBazaar, we were already an experienced team.

To some extent, whatever InfoEdge was doing as an operation, we had in our past lives done something similar, like we had built e-bookers, right? So we were not the organization that looking for a huge amount of operational input where they were really able to help was this guidance on overall profitability, the regulatory aspect of things. We didn't have a room at many places where we got, you know, at least a conversation.

And that was very, very critical in those days in otherwise fairly difficult industry, right? And we've had a difficult past from that perspective. And I think in many other, you know, situations that has been supremely valuable, right?

And you cannot, look, eventually organizations succeed not because of one reason, they succeed because 10 things fell into place. Now is each of those things 10% responsible or actually is each of them 100% responsible? Because it needed all those 10 things to work for the organization to be where it is.

Otherwise, and what I'm going to say is an organization has many reasons to fail, very few reasons to succeed, right? And so everything needs to be in place. So no part, it's like saying, I've got four chairs, four stands supporting this chair.

And so each of them is 25% valuable. Try removing one of them and then sitting and try removing two and sitting, right? So each of them is actually 100% valuable.

And I think that is, that is really the truth. So every aspect is very, very critical. And so that those aspects are, are 100% why Policy Bazaar is where it is today.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 45:58 

And this is a question to both of you and starting with Yashish, you're right. What is one thing that you know about each other now that you wish you had known back then when you partnered?

Yashish Dahiya 46:07

See, I think Sanjeev is far more circumspect than I could have imagined because we only are, our imagination is limited by us. It's just like we're seeing reflections of ourselves. Our imagination is, is limited by what we are.

And so if we don't have some ability, we find it very hard to identify that ability, but he's obviously far more experienced and circumspect. So he could see things which were going to come in the future, which I perhaps could not at that point. And later on they came true and most of them were from a particular angle, which was from a risk angle or from a regulatory angle or something of that sort.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 46:45

What about you Sanjeev? 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 46:50

I would have liked him to raise less money because I would have liked him to have a higher percentage shareholding himself in the company.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 46:58 

Yashish, I would definitely like to do a part two to this conversation because what I had prepared is just covered like 15% and we had such an amazing conversation. But I would like to conclude with you, there is no other investor like Sanjeev in the Indian ecosystem. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 47:14

No, no, no.

One second boss, it's not me.

It's not me alone, it's InfoEdge, it's the team, it's Hitesh, it's all the others in the investor team, Kitty, Chinmay, Amit, Vibhore, Rishabh, you know, everybody else. There are about 15-20 people in the team. On the strategic side, it's Rohan Mathur.

So there are lots of people, it's the InfoEdge culture and values. We are trying to build an institution here that outlives us. So it's not me.

Yashish Dahiya 47:47 

And I think they are very sensitive about it, you have to recollect about 5-6 years into Policybazaar or maybe 6-7 years, I don't remember exactly, InfoEdge actually sold shares worth 133 crores, right? And it did sell and they sold almost 30% of what they had at that time. And then they came back and invested 60 million dollars, right?

So the beauty of this conversation is they were able to change their mind and very clearly they saw the regulatory risk as a very serious risk at one point and they perhaps saw the opportunity as a big, but for somebody to be able to change their mind over, is basically that they are thinking first principles.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 48:26

So it's like this, there was a certain regulation which said Policy Bazaar can sell a lead to maximum 3 people or 4 people, I don't know. 

Yashish Dahiya 48:35

There were various regulations, yeah. There were various pieces.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 48:37

And which meant that there was going to be a ceiling on the revenue potential. So we looked at that and said, okay, maybe we should sell some, right? The regulation changed and we came back in with 4-5 times that amount that we took out.

And that thinking too was led by Kitty and Hitesh, not by me.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 49:01

So how do we build more InfoEdges in the Indian startup ecosystem, where you mentioned the difference has always been when many of the investors or some investors on the cap table think about themselves, but never InfoEdge thought about themselves, they always thought about Policy Bazaar.

Yashish Dahiya 49:17

I think the culture will flow automatically. I think no effort ever goes waste, the culture will flow. 

I'm sure other companies that InfoEdge is invested in, as they grow, they would and they would have, at some level, the ethos will keep flowing. And I'm sure it's flowing in the rest of the country as well. So I guess as a country, from every successful organization, we will end up creating 20-30 more successful organizations as long as the ethos stays right.

And I think that is what we get from InfoEdge, right? It's the ethos that's flowing through. And in a way, that's a reflection of what investments they made and what people they made investments, because those people will follow a similar ethos, similar.

It may not be exactly the same, but it'll be in the close, and as I say, Apple doesn't fall very far from the tree. So I guess that ethos will flow through. So as we…

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 50:22 

And why do you think that, that culture of going, like Sanjeev could have restrictions from his board at that point in time, that he only invests whatever is giving jobs to the country, so strategic to the country, don't…

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 50:34

Well, actually… That even I can have. No, no, no.

That, no, no. Hold it. Hold it.

At that time, we defined that if we're investing in an internet company, it's within our domain. We stayed with that. See, jobs is a strategic investment, the rest is a financial investment.

But the whole, we've stayed, I think, 17 years in policy, so it's more than just financial. It's not strategic because it's not a business, it's not allied to a business that we own and operate. But our time horizon is long-term.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 51:10 

And similarly, what the point I was trying to make is, once tomorrow you start making investments, right, the kind of trust relationship that you saw between you and Sanjeev… 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 51:22

InfoEdge. Between him and InfoEdge.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 51:23

Between him and InfoEdge. Yeah, yeah. Between yourself and InfoEdge.

You would, you would percolate the same kind of trust in the entrepreneur.

Yashish Dahiya 51:33

Eventually, you need trust, right? I speak to all our investors, even today, and we speak very freely. And I said, listen, I'm telling you what I think very clearly, right?

You may agree with it, you may not agree with it. You may like this opportunity, you may not like this opportunity. Eventually, perhaps 0.1% of the world's investors have to be investors in Policy Bazaar. The remaining 99.9% don't actually need to believe in it, right? Because we only need a few hundred, like, institutional investors. I'm telling you the story well in advance of the direction we are headed in.

I'm not giving you surprises, right? In fact, if anything, I actually put it out in a slightly wrong way in the beginning, and then three months, six months later, we refine it and come out in the right way. So, utilize that opportunity.

If you don't believe in this, to not be in Policy Bazaar. And if you believe in it, to be in Policy Bazaar. I believe we are building something which is going to transform social security in this country, for the middle class, right?

I may fail. I may succeed. I don't know.

I can only try my best, right? I think I will succeed. But I don't expect people to believe that blindly.

But everybody has to make a call. Investing is a risky business, right? And that's exactly how I speak to my investors today.

So, but there's enough time for everybody to make that decision. It's not that anybody's getting surprised at any stage. And you know, if you kind of think about it, when we went for our hospitals piece, we went to the shareholders for an approval.

And I think 82 or something percent of the people approved. And that's why we went ahead. So, eventually, whatever big decisions we take are…

And legally, we did not even need to go to the shareholders. But we did it. So, I believe in consensus.

And like to move with consensus. All the time. Look, the organization does not only belong to me.

I am the driver of the organization today. You've got to trust me in the situations, right? And I believe I'm taking it in the right direction.

And I'm very convinced I'm taking it in the right direction. But yeah, everybody doesn't need to be a passenger in the car. There's enough stops along the way.

Now, we're a public company. There's enough stops along the way. People can get off.

People can get on. And that's fine. You know, the organization is a grown-up organization.

But I believe the organization is going in a direction which is beautiful. And I think we've got a lot of success ahead.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 54:11

Thank you so much, Yashish. Thank you so much, Sanjeev. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 54:13

Thank you.

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 54:13

I think this conversation is a testament to how Indian ecosystem has developed and how a founder-investor relationship blossoms in a beautiful manner. 

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 54:24

Thank you for saying that. 

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 54:27

It's an example for other founder-investors to take whatever they can absorb from it.

Yashish Dahiya 54:32

Thank you. Thank you very much. 

Siddhartha Ahluwalia 54:34

It's been an honor to have this conversation.

Sanjeev Bikhchandani 54:36

Thank you. Thank you

Yashish Dahiya 54:37

Thank you, Sanjeev.